H5N1 linked to dioxins, radioactive contamination?

Just seen re new book, Fowl! Bird Flu - It's Not What You Think Has notions pollutants, radiation, have some connections.

"FOWL!" is an investigative report into how dioxins, POPs and other environment chemicals are contributing to illness in migratory birds, chickens and humans by making them more susceptible to the effects of influenza viruses.

Also today, sent link to page w mention of radioactive contamination of environment - test site in Qinghai, Chernobyl. In French, at: http://h5n1-theses-hypotheses.over-blog.com/article-2410753.html via babelfish:

several sites of emergence of zoonose in the wild birds correspond to polluted sites or relate to birds which could have a decreased immunity (chingai = old site of manufacture of Chinese nuclear bombs) the sector of the Baltic contains many immersed ammunition, East-West flows of birds between Russia and Western Europe pass to the top zones of repercussions of Tchernobyl. and the geography of the cases in Europe and Eastern Europe can make think of the chart repercussions of Chernobyl, the Vietnamese soldier nam has important after-effects of war (of which dioxanes)... it would be interesting to know if the radioactivity or other mutagen agents have particular effects on the viral arn grippal chart ospar:

I don't know if too outlandish, or worth considering. (Yes, I should read Fowl! - only just published)

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HAS JIM WEST BROKEN THE BANK ON BIRD FLU IN TURKEY? AND OTHER PLACES?

For a couple of years, I've been aware of Jim's highly original work. He found some very compelling correlations between air pollution and birds dying of so-called West Nile disease. In other words, the unproven idea of a virus doing damage was replaced with a much more down-to-earth and visible conclusion. Jim did that investigative work.

Jim has now ventured into the bizarre world of bird flu.

He goes where other journalists don't.

He has perspectives that other people don't think about.

In a half-sane world, Jim would be accorded much praise and significant rewards.

Here, I'm going to print major excerpts from his recent emails on the subject of bird flu in Turkey. (The H5N1 bird flu virus is being blamed for the deaths of several children there, and for perhaps 20 other human cases in that country.)

As I've pointed out, the actual blood tests on those children are opaque. We don't know how the tests were done by the hospital in Van, Turkey, or the World Health Organization (WHO) in England. I've been trying vainly to get very specific information from WHO.

From here on, these are the words of Jim West. I make comments in caps and brackets.

***********************************************
1) At the same time that "bird flu" hit Turkey, Turkey had let 2,000,000 children out of the schools due to overwhelming SMOG. [THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY POINT. GLOBAL HEALTH AGENCIES HAVE BEEN IGNORING IT COMPLETELY, IN THE RABID ATTEMPT TO LINK UP ILLNESS WITH A VIRUS--JR]

Similarities are here, for H5N1, West Nile, SARS -- and air pollution. West Nile was a "bird flu", "a flu-like disease", killing avians massively. [IN OTHER WORDS, RESEARCHERS HAVE IGNORED CORRELATIONS BETWEEN SERIOUS CHEMICAL AIR POLLUTION AND SO-CALLED H5N1, WEST NILE, AND SARS--JR]

Turkey and Iran are polluted by mining and petro-chemical industries. Iraq is also at the epidemic intersection, but I hadn't time to look for industry there. [THE AREA OF TURKEY SAID TO BE HIT BY BIRD FLU ADJOINS AREAS OF IRAN AND IRAQ---JR]

2) H5N1 stock virus. Independent investigation is difficult or impossible due to Patriot Act and Homeland Security laws. [ANOTHER EXTRAORDINARY POINT. INDEPENDENT UNBIASED RESEARCHERS SHOULD BE STUDYING H5N1 TO SEE WHAT IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE, WHAT ITS CHARACTERISTICS ARE...WHETHER IT IS REALLY A VIRUS...ALL SORTS OF QUESTIONS WOULD BE ASKED BY TRULY UNBIASED RESEARCHERS, BUT SAMPLES OF H5N1 ARE BEING HELD VERY CLOSE TO THE VEST...THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS SECRECY IS: THE VIRUS COULD BE USED AS A BIO-WEAPON---JR]

So that's a toxicological lens through which we can view today's "bird flu".

-Jim West
www geocities.com/harpub (polio critique) www geocities.com/noxot (West Nile
virus critique) www westonaprice.org/envtoxins/sarsepidemic.html (SARS critique)

That's Jim West's second email. Here is his next one:

Jon,

Here are, following my other email to you, URL links regarding Turkey and smog, with schools being closed, 2,000,000 children...

In case some people think that the recent victims of bird flu in Turkey are environmentally safe, here are some search results for the area of Van, Turkey, which [is] on the Iran border. [VAN IS THE AREA IN TURKEY WHERE THE CHILDREN DIED--JR]

Eastern Turkey and the adjoining NW Iran are mining and petrochemical regions.

Respiratory disease is rampant in these regions.

Recent air pollution epidemic forced Teheran school closings...

www ozbybike.co.uk/?p=15
"...we set off early for Bostan Anbad 63km away, the early morning air pollution left me gasping and wheezing..."
[nw iran, region of Turkey/Iran border and not far enough from Van, Turkey]

www bioline.org.br/request?ja02023
Kilice, F (1999). Investigation of Toxic Heavy Metals Pollution in the Road Dust at the Centre of Van Turkey. Bulletin of Pure and Applied Science 18c, 1-4.

http:// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4516430.stm
More than 1,600 people have been taken to hospitals in Tehran as pollution in the Iranian capital reaches critical levels, health officials have said. [REMEMBER, THE AREA OF TURKEY CALLED "BIRD FLU" TERRITORY SITS UP AGAINST IRAN--JR]

Hospitals have reported...

Tehran has been suffering from severe smog since the beginning of December.

www environmentalhealthnews.org/archives.jsp?sm=fl13%3Bpublishernam
e3%3BBBCfr13%3Bhumhealthcond12%3B5Respiratory11%3
B Respiratory Pollution in Tehran 'kills 100.' More than 100 people have died after pollution in Tehran reached critical levels, health officials said. BBC, UK. 10 December 2005.

http:// news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4502406.stm
Two million school children have been given an unexpected day off.
The authorities have advised children, the elderly and people suffering from heart and lung disease to stay indoors.

http:// kgvrs.mine.kyushu-u.ac.jp/GVR%20report/No11/iran.pdf
"Mineral activities means exploration and extracting both have caused environmental pollution specially in northern Iran..."

www cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/04/health/main1179685.shtml
Meanwhile, new bird flu cases in fowl were detected in five areas in
eastern and southeastern Turkey and authorities have culled 7,000 fowl in those areas, Agriculture Minister Mehdi Eker said Thursday.

In Istanbul, the biggest city in Turkey, authorities immediately took four pigeons, found dead near a mosque, to a lab for bird flu tests and sprayed the area with disinfectants, the municipality said in a statement late Thursday, the Anatolia news agency reported early Friday...

************************************************

Okay, so those are Jim West's emails. We can see that very serious chemical pollution exists in the air in certain areas of Turkey and adjoining Iran. This is being ignored in studying the deaths of the several children there, and is ignored in other cases of sickness as well. And this pollution is also being ignored in studying the deaths of birds.

Why? Well, who benefits from this diversion away from the facts?

The people who own and operate the industries that are poisoning the air.

To take this further, I personally find it very hard to believe that, in an area of extreme pollution, where RESPIRATORY DISEASE is the key condition, three children who are sick are suddenly "checked for bird flu." Among many cases of chemically caused respiratory distress in the region, all of a sudden there is going to be an investigation of bird flu?

I believe this is part of a larger agenda, one which I've described in earlier articles. Remember, Turkey is being cited as the first country outside of Asia where "bird flu has jumped." "Now, Europe is being threatened." Those who want this fake viral epidemic to be more frightening consider Turkey a major advance in their propaganda program.

www nomorefakenews.com/archives/archiveview.php?key=2961

Post edited by: martin, at: 2006/04/14 03:44

Thanks for this, tho I'm afraid connections here look v tenuous indeed.

Tehran, say, isn't so close to rural Turkey. Can't say a country has smog just coz a city or two have; or should we describe US as blanketed in smog (and wonder re lack of human deaths from bird flu, which of course includes reason that because lack H5N1 there). Or planet earth all smoggy coz a city is?

Many deaths in places free of smog - this disease mainly hits rural people, not surprisingly as a chicken virus.

Here in HK, smog worsening; yet poultry controls slashed virus in chickens, and no locally contracted human deaths since 1997.
China has plenty of very smoggy cities, yet cases largely in rural places.

Smog indeed terrible - but it's not bird flu.

Post edited by: martin, at: 2006/04/14 03:38

[b]sahnshinz wrote:[/b]
[quote]HAS JIM WEST BROKEN THE BANK ON BIRD FLU IN TURKEY? AND OTHER PLACES?

In other words, the unproven idea of a virus doing damage was replaced with a much more down-to-earth and visible conclusion. Jim did that investigative work.

Similarities are here, for H5N1, West Nile, SARS -- and air pollution. West Nile was a "bird flu", "a flu-like disease", killing avians massively. [IN OTHER WORDS, RESEARCHERS HAVE IGNORED CORRELATIONS BETWEEN SERIOUS CHEMICAL AIR POLLUTION AND SO-CALLED H5N1, WEST NILE, AND SARS--JR]

2) H5N1 stock virus. Independent investigation is difficult or impossible due to Patriot Act and Homeland Security laws.

[ANOTHER EXTRAORDINARY POINT. INDEPENDENT UNBIASED RESEARCHERS SHOULD BE STUDYING H5N1 TO SEE WHAT IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE, WHAT ITS CHARACTERISTICS ARE...WHETHER IT IS REALLY A VIRUS...

Okay, so those are Jim West's emails. We can see that very serious chemical pollution exists in the air in certain areas of Turkey and adjoining Iran. This is being ignored in studying the deaths of the several children there, and is ignored in other cases of sickness as well. And this pollution is also being ignored in studying the deaths of birds.

Why? Well, who benefits from this diversion away from the facts?

The people who own and operate the industries that are poisoning the air.

To take this further, I personally find it very hard to believe that, in an area of extreme pollution, where RESPIRATORY DISEASE is the key condition, three children who are sick are suddenly "checked for bird flu." Among many cases of chemically caused respiratory distress in the region, all of a sudden there is going to be an investigation of bird flu?

I believe this is part of a larger agenda, one which I've described in earlier articles. Remember, Turkey is being cited as the first country outside of Asia where "bird flu has jumped." "Now, Europe is being threatened." Those who want this fake viral epidemic to be more frightening consider Turkey a major advance in their propaganda program.

http:// www nomorefakenews.com/archives/archiveview.php?key=2961[/quote]

Oh, Puh-leeeeeese..,

You really think the WHO, CDC, CIDRAP, FAO, OEI, and others are publishing rubbish?

There's NO H5N1 virus going around?

Blame this whole thing on air polution?

What about the areas that aren't polluted? What's killing birds there?

So agri business, manufacturing entities are making the world toxic and all government agencies are covering it up and blaming it on a bird virus so the TRUTH WON'T LEAK OUT and spoil profits.

I roll on the floor laughing.

Post edited by: martin, at: 2006/04/15 03:03

[b]neil wrote:[/b]
[quote][b]sahnshinz wrote:[/b]
[quote]HAS JIM WEST BROKEN THE BANK ON BIRD FLU IN TURKEY? AND OTHER PLACES?

In other words, the unproven idea of a virus doing damage was replaced with a much more down-to-earth and visible conclusion. Jim did that investigative work.

Similarities are here, for H5N1, West Nile, SARS -- and air pollution. West Nile was a "bird flu", "a flu-like disease", killing avians massively. [IN OTHER WORDS, RESEARCHERS HAVE IGNORED CORRELATIONS BETWEEN SERIOUS CHEMICAL AIR POLLUTION AND SO-CALLED H5N1, WEST NILE, AND SARS--JR]

2) H5N1 stock virus. Independent investigation is difficult or impossible due to Patriot Act and Homeland Security laws.

[ANOTHER EXTRAORDINARY POINT. INDEPENDENT UNBIASED RESEARCHERS SHOULD BE STUDYING H5N1 TO SEE WHAT IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE, WHAT ITS CHARACTERISTICS ARE...WHETHER IT IS REALLY A VIRUS...

Okay, so those are Jim West's emails. We can see that very serious chemical pollution exists in the air in certain areas of Turkey and adjoining Iran. This is being ignored in studying the deaths of the several children there, and is ignored in other cases of sickness as well. And this pollution is also being ignored in studying the deaths of birds.

Why? Well, who benefits from this diversion away from the facts?

The people who own and operate the industries that are poisoning the air.

To take this further, I personally find it very hard to believe that, in an area of extreme pollution, where RESPIRATORY DISEASE is the key condition, three children who are sick are suddenly "checked for bird flu." Among many cases of chemically caused respiratory distress in the region, all of a sudden there is going to be an investigation of bird flu?

I believe this is part of a larger agenda, one which I've described in earlier articles. Remember, Turkey is being cited as the first country outside of Asia where "bird flu has jumped." "Now, Europe is being threatened." Those who want this fake viral epidemic to be more frightening consider Turkey a major advance in their propaganda program.

http://www.nomorefakenews.com/archives/archiveview.php?key=2961[/quote]

Oh, Puh-leeeeeese..,

You really think the WHO, CDC, CIDRAP, FAO, OEI, and others are publishing rubbish?

There's NO H5N1 virus going around?

Blame this whole thing on air polution?

What about the areas that aren't polluted? What's killing birds there?

So agri business, manufacturing entities are making the world toxic and all government agencies are covering it up and blaming it on a bird virus so the TRUTH WON'T LEAK OUT and spoil profits.

I roll on the floor laughing.[/quote]

Just a couple of quick questions for you, since you seem able to provide the answers.

1. Has the H5N1 virus even been isolated from a human via purification and not PCR?

2. What viral load of H5N1 is lethal for humans?

3. Has viral load been measured in any confirmed human deaths?

[b]sahnshinz wrote:[/b]

I roll on the floor laughing
Just a couple of quick questions for you, since you seem able to provide the answers.

1. Has the H5N1 virus even been isolated from a human via purification and not PCR?

2. What viral load of H5N1 is lethal for humans?

3. Has viral load been measured in any confirmed human deaths?[/quote]

Oh, I hate to do this but, Why not ask the families of those who have been confirmed, by PCR no doubt, who did die of H5N1?

Well, they do detect antibodies..,
http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/37/4/937?view=long&pmid=10074505

And, the virus is NOT directly identifiable in post mortem tissue testing..,
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/76511131/ABSTRACT?CR...

As far as PCR goes, I do beleive it's a recommended way of identifying influenza virus. After all it is used to do so for all major types of flu.
From this article:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=cache:Tp-toIy3N6YJ:www.hel...

Comes this note:
"METHODS: Case notes of 12 patients with virus-culture-confirmed influenza A H5N1 infection were analysed. " Confirmation by purification (I presume you mean filtration?) no, but culture in appropriate virus medium is indicated.

Does mono-clonal antibody immunoassay count?
From this article:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/279/5349/393

Comes this statement:
"On 9 May 1997, a previously healthy 3-year-old boy.., the child died on 21 May with several complications, including respiratory failure, renal failure, and disseminated intravascular coagulopathy. The isolate, designated A/Hong Kong/156/97, was typed as an influenza A virus by means of monoclonal antibodies to viral nucleoprotein in an immunofluorescence test."

Viral load required to kill humans? Okay, who's going to volunteer to be the guinea pig to determine that?

There's plenty of literature on lethal dose in human analogues, e.g., MICE, FERRETS, PIGS, and now CATS. And of course, there's plenty of information on Chickens, eh??? Ducks have been studied too.

WEh, well, I think you get my point. If you want to read the articles on the lethal dose I think if you do a little creative Googling, you'll find plenty.

I don't think we're being sold a bill of goods.

You're linkages to dioxins, radioactive contamination, and heavy air pollution being related to conspiracy of big industry in collusion with would health organizations is just that: A "conspiracy theory."

Neil

[b]neil wrote:[/b]
[quote][b]sahnshinz wrote:[/b]

I roll on the floor laughing
Just a couple of quick questions for you, since you seem able to provide the answers.

1. Has the H5N1 virus even been isolated from a human via purification and not PCR?

2. What viral load of H5N1 is lethal for humans?

3. Has viral load been measured in any confirmed human deaths?[/quote]

Oh, I hate to do this but, Why not ask the families of those who have been confirmed, by PCR no doubt, who did die of H5N1?

Well, they do detect antibodies..,
http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/37/4/937?view=long&pmid=10074505

And, the virus is NOT directly identifiable in post mortem tissue testing..,
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/76511131/ABSTRACT?CR...

As far as PCR goes, I do beleive it's a recommended way of identifying influenza virus. After all it is used to do so for all major types of flu.
From this article:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=cache:Tp-toIy3N6YJ:www.hel...

Comes this note:
"METHODS: Case notes of 12 patients with virus-culture-confirmed influenza A H5N1 infection were analysed. " Confirmation by purification (I presume you mean filtration?) no, but culture in appropriate virus medium is indicated.

Does mono-clonal antibody immunoassay count?
From this article:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/279/5349/393

Comes this statement:
"On 9 May 1997, a previously healthy 3-year-old boy.., the child died on 21 May with several complications, including respiratory failure, renal failure, and disseminated intravascular coagulopathy. The isolate, designated A/Hong Kong/156/97, was typed as an influenza A virus by means of monoclonal antibodies to viral nucleoprotein in an immunofluorescence test."

Viral load required to kill humans? Okay, who's going to volunteer to be the guinea pig to determine that?

There's plenty of literature on lethal dose in human analogues, e.g., MICE, FERRETS, PIGS, and now CATS. And of course, there's plenty of information on Chickens, eh??? Ducks have been studied too.

WEh, well, I think you get my point. If you want to read the articles on the lethal dose I think if you do a little creative Googling, you'll find plenty.

I don't think we're being sold a bill of goods.

You're linkages to dioxins, radioactive contamination, and heavy air pollution being related to conspiracy of big industry in collusion with would health organizations is just that: A "conspiracy theory."

Neil[/quote]

Well I see you are able to copy & paste without providing any answers to my questions. Guess I was wrong to assume that you could it.

BTW, if PCR is required to find the virus in a human it suggests that the virus is present in [u]very minute quantities[/u]. Are these small quantities sufficient to produce death? What is the viral load in those that have died? Wouldn't one assume that those killed by H5N1 would be teaming with it, especially considering it's advertised virulence?

As for the presence of antibodies. All it suggests is that the body was exposed to the virus and it reacted appropriately. It says nothing about whether the foreign body had anything to do with death.

OK, so maybe small quantities of the virus can be lethal.

Smog as the real killer idea is laughable. For forums elsewhere if needs be.

Closing this thread.

Martin