我不相信野鳥會傳播 h5n1

  • 這個話題是空的。
查看 31 則貼文(共 57 則)
  • 作者
    貼文
  • #3739
    匿名的

      大家好,Thie 是我能找到的少數幾篇關於 HPAI 和缺乏主要臨床症狀的文章之一。

      我無法閱讀全文 鴨子是否導致了亞洲高致病性 H5N1 流感病毒的流行? Sturm-Ramirez KM、Hulse-Post DJ、Govorkova EA、Humberd J、Seiler P、Puthavathana P、Buranathai C、Nguyen TD、Chaisingh A、Long HT、Naipospos TS、Chen H、Ellis TM、Guan Y、Peiris JS、Web RG。聖裘德兒童研究醫院傳染病科病毒學科,孟菲斯,田納西州 38105-2794,美國。

      野生水禽是所有甲型流感病毒的天然宿主,這些病毒通常對這些鳥類無致病性。然而,自2002年底以來,H5N1流感在亞洲爆發,導致休閒公園內的水禽、家禽和野生候鳥死亡。流感病毒與其自然宿主之間的進化停滯可能已被破壞,這促使我們思考水禽是否對H5N1流感病毒疾病有抵抗力,以及它們是否仍然可以作為這些病毒的儲存宿主。為了更了解鴨子中 H5N1 病毒的生物學特性並試圖回答這個問題,我們為幼年綠頭鴨接種了 2003 年至 2004 年間在亞洲分離出的 23 種不同的 H5N1 流感病毒。

      所有病毒分離株在接種的鴨子中都能有效複製,其中 22 株病毒會傳播給易感接觸者。接種禽類和接觸禽類的病毒在氣管中的複製水平高於泄殖腔,這表明消化道不是 H5N1 流感病毒在鴨體內複製的主要場所,糞口途徑可能不再是主要傳播途徑小路。

      病毒分離株'致病性從完全非致病性到高度致死性不等,並與氣管病毒滴度呈正相關。儘管如此,在鴨子中非致病性的八種病毒分離株卻能夠有效地複製並傳播給未接觸過的鴨子, 顯示高致病性 H5N1 病毒引起的疾病症狀極少 鴨體內的瘧原蟲可以在亞洲的家鴨和野鴨中悄悄高效地傳播,對人類和獸醫公共衛生構成嚴重威脅。 PMID:16103179 [PubMed – MEDLINE 索引] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16103179?dopt=Abstract

      問候

      #3740
      馬丁
      參加者

        謝謝,是的,我已經看過這篇[全文],以及相關論文(關於鴨子是否是特洛伊木馬)
        這是一些人指責野生鳥類的重要稻草。不管證據如何,歸咎於野鳥的關鍵部分。

        H5N1 存在於野生鳥類的說法根本沒有事實根據。 (有一件事——即使對鴨子來說是溫和的,它也會殺死其他鳥類。否則,爭論 H5N1 在野生虹鱒中會變得良性。)

        我在另一篇文章中引用的專家之一關毅是這篇論文的作者之一。不過他是個有獨立思想的人。

        正如我在上面的一篇文章中指出的,包括來自圈養鳥類的此類實驗/結果(另請參閱此處關於特洛伊鴨的線程):

        H5N1要在野生鳥類中變得無毒,需要相當大的進化;在野外沒有看到這種情況(並且進行了大量測試;而且幾乎所有地方都沒有野生鳥類因 H5N1 死亡)。
        家養/實驗鴨泄殖腔中 H5N1 路徑較低;鴨子不會法式接吻,而且我從未見過野鴨打噴嚏,所以要大力傳播。克羅埃西亞的天鵝泄殖腔也有低滴度;池塘裡的其他鳥類沒有受到感染[天鵝感染的來源是一個謎:為什麼伏爾加河上的天鵝在羅馬尼亞受影響的野生鳥類中占主導地位?]

        真正的責任在別處;對於家禽業來說,傳播禽流感並不困難——這已經被證明了。
        那麼,大問題是——為什麼如此關注野生鳥類,而聯合國糧農組織也指出在健康的野生鳥類中沒有發現 H5N1 病毒? (本論壇上提到的幾乎是次要的例外。)
        為什麼?
        為什麼不至少對農業給予同等的關注呢? (請參閱此處的線程)

        對「科學」來說,現在是悲傷的時刻。

        馬丁

        貼文編輯:martin,發佈於:2005/12/23 00:17

        #3741
        匿名的

          一起你好

          引用:
          真正的責任在別處;對於家禽業來說,傳播禽流感並不困難——這已經被證明了。
          為什麼糧農組織如此關注野生鳥類,而聯合國糧農組織也指出在健康的野生鳥類中未發現 H5N1 病毒?
          為什麼不至少對農業給予同等的關注呢? (請參閱此處的線程)

          我想這個論壇上的我們所有人(或者我希望如此)都同意。這就是說,我們不應該停止將新數據帶入論壇,並嘗試得出結論並評估新方面(另請參閱: http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/aflu/Pathology.htm

          疫苗接種技術似乎在進步,重點是重組雞痘(活)疫苗和反向遺傳學生產的疫苗(參見中國疫苗接種方案)和新的DIVA策略。有理由相信,許多國家嚴格的撲殺意識形態即將減弱

          引用:
          謝謝,是的,我看過這篇[全文],)

          你能給我一個連結嗎?我對討論和方法特別感興趣。

          問候

          貼文編輯:Gänseerpel,發佈於:2005/12/23 13:04

          貼文編輯:Gänseerpel,發佈於:2005/12/23 13:06

          #3742
          馬丁
          參加者

            最近有一些書信往來 加拿大醫學記者海倫‧布蘭斯韋爾 – 前段時間她訪問了我關於野鳥和H5N1的故事;最近寫到「相當於隱形轟炸機的禽類」將 H5N1 從中國向西傳播。 (那麼,就是對牙仙鳥的信仰。)

            我向她發送了有關農業和 H5N1 的穀物報告的簡短電子郵件;她回答說,一些自然資源保護主義者仍然否認在傳播中發揮了某種作用,這很奇怪。

            這是我發送的電子郵件:

            引用:
            一些鳥類發揮了一定作用,它們是將病毒引入新地區的一種可能途徑」——我沒有看到任何鳥類學家/環保主義者對此提出異議。到目前為止,仍然是唯一可能的途徑,所有對野生鳥類的關注都是過度,並導致問題 - 最新的是俄羅斯地區,即將射殺鳥類(家禽養殖場附近?) 幾天前的新聞報道稱。

            主要的保護影響。野生鳥類本身沒有發言權,所以像我這樣的人會為他們的利益而積極行動——極其不公平的野生鳥類因家禽業的錯誤而受到如此多的錯誤指責。參見穀物報告。主要質疑的不是野生鳥類,而是糧農組織和工業化農業。

            但是,糧農組織的聲音很大——尤其是多梅內克。不知何故,媒體似乎喜歡野鳥攜帶一種可能殺死我們所有人的疾病的想法。擊敗希區考克,所以對於編輯和一些聳人聽聞的作家(勞瑞·加勒特向前一步)來說,有什麼不喜歡的呢?一個好故事,所以誰在乎細節。不確定你是否這樣做:我在上一封電子郵件中寫了這樣的速記,以免轟炸你。

            光說「一定是隱形轟炸機鳥」是不科學的。一點也不科學。

            我們認為野生鳥類是攜帶者的誇大其詞只是基於假設,並且忽略了家禽業固有的問題:畢竟,沒有家禽業,我們就不會有這種劇毒的H5N1,也不會有大量其他高致病性禽流感。近年來。

            「人工智慧科學家」——並非所有人工智慧科學家。 Karesh,假設你指的是 Williams Karesh,而不是據我所知的人工智慧科學家;去年夏天,當需要時,他在現場做了重要的工作。他和他的團隊的工作有力地證明了「這種疾病在野生鳥類中具有自限性」。

            奇怪的是你的名單似乎都是美國人。比如說,斯韋恩在亞洲工作過嗎?參見在亞洲擁有豐富經驗的獸醫Les Sims,他認為野生鳥類在傳播中只發揮很小的作用。管一:人工智能領域沒有“專家”,他的團隊在香港/中國對病毒進行了開創性研究,這又如何呢?引用一句話:野鳥是替罪羔羊。 Ken Shortridge 曾與關及其同事合作,在《柳葉刀》雜誌上共同撰寫論文,顯示野生鳥類不是 2003/04 年的關鍵媒介。

            為什麼你不認為在討論 H5N1 和野生鳥類時,考慮具有一些或詳細了解遷徙物種、時間、路線等的鳥類學家的觀點並不重要? – 當仔細研究各種案例時,野生鳥類作為傳播者的故事變得很弱或極不可能。尼曼管理著這種無知。但很難說是科學。 「它不會殺死一些鴨子」——不正確。情況比這更複雜。

            我所看到的一切:一些菌株對鴨子高度致命(請參閱美國地質調查局網站上的物種清單),一些菌株可能會殺死一小部分鴨子。不太致命的菌株的排泄量很低——那麼鴨子將如何傳播它們?打噴嚏和法式接吻?泰國稻田裡的家鴨似乎在維持 H5N1 病毒方面發揮了重要作用。但在野外呢?

            一個有科學根據的案例:羅馬尼亞的天鵝排泄物很少;與它們共享池塘的鳥類沒有被感染。中國東部湖泊中的六隻看似健康的野鴨感染了H5N1病毒。但病毒並沒有朝著鳥類從鄱陽遷徙的方向移動。同一篇論文:H5N1 在中國和越南進化出了不同的區域毒株:反對野生鳥類是主要攜帶者的主要科學證據,但卻被忽視了。迄今為止,尚未發現野生鳥類傳播 H5N1 病毒的病例。這並不意味著這種情況沒有發生——很難確定是什麼導致了幾次疫情的爆發——但還不確定,但野鳥很容易將其歸咎於這一點。法國火雞沒有與野生鳥類接觸過,但它們卻接觸到了。

            同樣,野生鳥類在很大程度上是轉移注意力的:透過觀察天空中的病毒,當病毒以其他方式到達時,可能只會幫助傳播。我確實相信野生鳥類(尤其是天鵝)會帶著 H5N1 飛來飛去;並在太多的情況下死於它。是的,哨兵們; H5N1 就在附近。但他們是在哪裡被感染的呢?大部分看起來像歐洲/黑海地區。他們甚至可能被餵(傾倒?)雞飼料嗎?受污染的飼料被認為是俄羅斯至少發生一起家禽疫情的原因。疣鼻天鵝往往很溫順,通常是留鳥。看起來病毒已經透過交通運輸穿過俄羅斯轉移到歐洲。現在由於某種原因感染了野生鳥類,尤其是天鵝。這不是第一次用手指觸摸野鳥嗎?

            對於 2003/04 年的 H5N1,「野鳥」經常受到指責——正是在這個時候,我發現了相反的證據,開始感興趣並積極行動。早些時候,美國將 HPAI 歸咎於 83/84;荷蘭 H7N7;澳洲也。在所有情況下,野生鳥類都被認為是或被認為可能是媒介,但證據表明它們不是。我在香港寫信,香港無疑是家禽甚至人類中 H5N1 病毒的震央,距離廣東鵝 96 系 H5N1 的第一個感染地點不遠。

            香港位於移民遷移路線上;來自東北亞和日本等繁殖地的鳥類;有些水鳥向南遠至澳大利亞,而許多則過冬,其中包括深圳西北邊境相對較小的濕地中的約 50,000 只水鳥。這裡偶有野生鳥類死亡病例中出現 H5N1 病毒病例。廣泛的檢測——在濕地對 16,000 隻或更多健康鳥類進行了檢測,沒有一隻呈陽性。

            所以, H5N1確實在野生鳥類中被證明具有自限性 這裡;沒有證據顯示經過香港遷徙的野生水鳥會攜帶這種病毒。

            假設您可以造訪這片濕地,看到 H5N1 領地中心的所有這些鳥類,那麼您的觀點是否會與加拿大略有不同?

            唉,海倫·布蘭斯威爾(Helen Branswell)不要動搖,也許在我的電子郵件到達的那天有點不高興:

            引用:
            可悲的是,我相信我的頓悟時刻還沒到來。我工作的這個優秀組織的旅行預算有限,不知何故,我認為報道在阿富汗的加拿大軍隊將勝過任何建議,即我應該長途跋涉穿過香港的沼澤,這樣我才能充分認識到我對鳥類的誹謗是多麼可悲。世界的。在此期間,您可能希望閱讀其他作家的作品。祝你的十字軍東徵好運。

            太糟糕了,幽默感失敗,海倫·布蘭斯韋爾在進一步的電子郵件中重複了這一點,並進一步挖掘了“十字軍東徵”;儘管至少她的想法確實為牙仙鳥提出了一個可能的拉丁名字—— 隱形炸彈魚.

            #3743
            馬丁
            參加者

              雖然牙仙鳥——能夠生存、維持和傳播H5N1 的野生鳥類——仍然是一種理論上的生物,它已經佔據了大眾的想像和各種記者的大腦,但相信它的「專家」卻不相信。病毒仍然是人類而不是鳥類學家。
              相反,真正了解野生鳥類的人仍然懷疑它的存在。

              法國鳥類保護聯盟文章在這裡 - 機器翻譯。

              http://www.protection-des-animaux.org/actualites/archives-512.html
              候鳥不是“天上的老鼠”

              野鳥經常被視為 H5N1 的主要傳播媒介
              一點一點變成「天上的老鼠」。 LPO
              譴責這項有害進程
              脆弱的。生物多樣性強調指出了主要的
              非法運送野生或家養鳥類所發揮的作用
              這個文件。

              一些時事的現實

              非洲鳥類的越冬過程

              2005 年夏季,污染區的候鳥
              (西伯利亞、亞洲),即將離開其表面
              在非洲的越冬地區築巢,
              中東,還有澳大利亞,有人預言會出現
              這些不同目的地的新壁爐 aviaires 以及
              許多野鳥為我們帶來了巨大的災難。事實上,它沒有它
              無論是在非洲還是在澳洲和新紐西蘭。

              奈及利亞

              2006 年 2 月 8 日,美國確認流感病毒 aviaire H5N1
              尼日利亞最初並專門關注工業
              鳥類的繁殖。迄今為止,尼日利亞尚未發現受污染的野生鳥類
              被找到。不能排除這些的原罐
              爐灶是來自中國和土耳其的家禽貿易。根據
              世界衛生組織動物參考實驗室
              聯合國糧食及農業組織(OMSA)和基金
              農業(糧農組織),從奈及利亞分離的病毒庫存顯示
              與在土耳其發現的相同的遺傳特徵
              其本身與中國湖泊的存量有關
              青柴省是此病的發源地。 *

              西班牙

              2006年2月15日在西班牙阿利坎特省貝尼多姆,
              檢獲2噸家禽。是從中國非法進口的
              透過卡車在西班牙運輸。看來他們的最終
              目的地是中餐館。

              這些家禽運動可以嚴重參與禽流感的傳播
              該病毒透過各國甚至各大洲傳播。他們展示
              邊境檢查對於摧毀非法網路的重要性
              的貿易。同時,“普遍化處理”
              現金中的雞的遷徙以及雞在周圍的移動
              世界每年 365 天都在發生,與季節性遷徙不同
              《野鳥》再次採納了導演萊昂本農 (Leon Bennun) 的說法。
              國際鳥類保護協會。

              觀賞鳥的交通

              運往法國的觀賞鳥非法貿易
              目前估計每年有超過 400 萬人。
              這個數字也對應於合法銷售的鳥類數量,
              總共有近 800 萬隻鳥。

              在人們追尋的鳥類中,有人指出,許多麻雀都來自
              分佈於南亞東部和中國,而鸚鵡主要來自西方
              非洲和坦尚尼亞。同樣,其他物種也來自南方
              美國。

              因此,在不否認移民可能發揮的作用的情況下,
              鳥類,LPO 強調,儘管放售規則開放
              有些人為了管理危機,顯然,非自願的
              也必須考慮不遵守預防措施的情況
              在分析情況時考慮。

              阿蘭‧布格萊恩‧杜堡 (Allin Bougrain Dubourg) LPO 主席

              貼文編輯:martin,發佈於:2006/03/12 08:03

              #3744
              馬丁
              參加者
                引用:
                我們這些幾十年來一直在研究禽流感和其他鳥類疾病的人,除了寵物主人和家禽業之外很少有人關心,我們感到沮喪的是,關於野生鳥類在傳播中所扮演的角色的理性聲音被淹沒了H5N1 病毒。僅在過去的一周,聯合國和國土安全辦公室就將候鳥列為美國海岸最有可能的 H5N1 病毒攜帶者,而有線新聞則爭先恐後地獲取鳥類遷徙地圖。當然,候鳥可能會將 H5N1 病毒帶到這裡。但 H5N1 搭乘合法或其他方式運輸家禽的飛機飛往北美的機會是同等的,甚至更大。

                最近,一批雞腳從泰國走私到美國,到達康乃狄克州時標有「水母」。幸運的是,我們的貿易監控系統發揮了作用,雞肉部分被沒收了。在過去的 30 年裡,我們對禽流感的傳播方式有了很多了解。在自然界中,禽流感病毒在許多類型的野生鳥類體內無害,僅造成輕微影響,有時根本沒有影響,類似於人類體內的許多細菌和病毒。

                這並不是說這種病毒不能被野生鳥類攜帶並殺死它們,因為它可以。然而,H5N1 的傳播並不是由野生鳥類的活動造成的,而是由人類活動——貿易——造成的。我們知道,野生或外來鳥類的國際貿易,無論是合法的還是非法的,都幫助 H5N1 在世界各地傳播。然而,這種病毒可能透過合法和非法的家禽貿易得到了最大的傳播。作為價值數十億美元的產業的一部分,家禽市場和農場遍布全球。這些設施的條件差異很大;有些環境非常不衛生,鳥與鳥之間的接觸也很密切。這種環境為致命禽流感病毒株的生長提供了理想的環境。

                用卡車、靴子或籠子運輸這些受感染的家禽和家禽產品以及受污染的糞便會導致禽流感的進一步傳播。目前人們對候鳥在 H5N1 病毒傳播中的作用的關注已經將討論從這一貿易上轉移開。 ……(羅伯特·庫克是首席獸醫兼副總裁,威廉·B·卡雷什是紐約布朗克斯動物園野生動物保護協會現場獸醫計畫主任。)

                不要怪野鳥'

                #3745
                馬丁
                參加者

                  最近的文章在 世界報 看看 H5N1 是否是一種人為製造和傳播的病毒。

                  透過 babelfish.altavista.com,包括:

                  引用:
                  除了尼日利亞的案例之外,鳥類學家還指出了暗示野生鳥類的場景中存在某些不一致之處。 “從東向西不存在重要的遷徙通道,中國病毒向歐洲的傳播不能用遷徙來解釋”,鳥類保護協會負責人之一理查德·托馬斯如此評價。總部位於倫敦的鳥類學家。國家自然歷史博物館 (MNHN) 鳥類種群生物學專家奧利維爾·德霍特 (Olivier Dehorter) 補充道:“在圖表上,我們可以清楚地看出,傳染性壁爐遵循西伯利亞大區的佈局。 ”

                  同樣,研究人員補充道,他並不排除野生動物對病毒傳播的微小貢獻,“土耳其的第二波污染似乎與人類活動有關——貿易、流離失所等——野鳥的活動。”此外,保護鳥類聯盟(LPO)的鳥類學家 Pascal Orabi表示,「澳洲和紐西蘭是飛越亞洲的某些物種的越冬地,但沒有受到影響」。

                  支持遷徙影響的有力論點仍然是中國鄱陽湖上的發現(二月世界) 8),健康的野鴨攜帶病毒,即能夠將病毒傳播到很遠的地方。但荷蘭水鳥研究組織濕地組織的負責人之一沃德·哈格梅耶爾表示,野生動物群不能只是罪魁禍首,該組織與聯合國糧農組織和國際研究中心共同開展了一項研究。農業和發展(Cirad)。哈格梅傑先生指出:“我們在非洲捕獲了近 7000 隻野生鳥類,沒有發現病毒攜帶者。”即使在歐盟,也對 10 000 只表面健康的鳥類進行了測試,但沒有呈陽性結果。”這些取消活動仍在繼續,官方結果應該會在未來幾週內公佈。

                  Le H5N1,病毒是野蠻還是國內?

                  #3746
                  馬丁
                  參加者
                    引用:
                    馬爾萬·馬坎·馬卡

                    曼谷,8 月 25 日(IPS)——最近在泰國和寮國的家禽中發現了致命禽流感病毒的新毒株,野生動物愛好者有理由感到自己被證明是正確的。盛行的炎熱天氣是候鳥的淡季,候鳥常被指責為散播禽流感的罪魁禍首。

                    當柬埔寨的鴨子出現感染跡象時,野鳥攜帶 H5N1 病毒跨越國際邊境的理論進一步站不住腳。這種觀點於 2004 年首次在該地區流行,當時這種致命病毒開始爆發並迅速蔓延到廣泛的國家。

                    「從來沒有任何確鑿的、有適當記錄的證據表明野生鳥類是該病毒的攜帶者,」《世界鳥類觀察》編輯理查德·托馬斯在電子郵件採訪中說。

                    因此,今年夏天對野生鳥類的暫緩措施更加支持聯合國糧食及農業組織(FAO)的觀點,即不受控制的受感染家禽貿易和流動是致命病毒傳播的主要原因。

                    「糧農組織意識到,儘管該地區政府和人民面臨眾所周知的風險,但東南亞和東亞的跨境家禽貿易仍在繼續,」聯合國機構補充道。

                    泰國和寮國的新 H5N1 株具有獨特的基因組成,這暴露了其起源。格里森說:“病毒分為三大類和子類。” “那空帕農府的新病毒株與 2004 年以來在泰國傳播的病毒株不同。”

                    格里森將印尼禽流感的傳播歸咎於人類活動,而不是候鳥,全國因禽流感而死亡的人數最多。 “很明顯,病毒在印尼的傳播是因為家禽產品的運輸,而不是因為野鳥。”

                    “候鳥不會傳播禽流感”

                    #3747
                    馬丁
                    參加者

                      以下是疾病管制中心網站上的論文摘要:

                      引用:
                      2005 年和 2006 年初,高致病性禽流感 (HPAI) H5N1 在禽類宿主物種和地理分佈上均大幅擴展。

                      Domestic waterfowl and migratory birds are reservoirs, but lethality of this subtype appeared to initially limit migrant effectiveness as introductory hosts. This situation may have changed, as HPAI H5N1 has recently expanded across Eurasia and into Europe and Africa.

                      Birds could introduce HPAI H5N1 to the Western Hemisphere through migration, vagrancy, and importation by people. Vagrants and migratory birds are not likely interhemispheric introductory hosts; import of infected domestic or pet birds is more probable.

                      If reassortment or mutation were to produce a virus adapted for rapid transmission among humans, birds would be unlikely introductory hosts because of differences in viral transmission mechanisms among major host groups (i.e., gastrointestinal for birds, respiratory for humans). Another possible result of reassortment would be a less lethal form of avian influenza, more readily spread by birds.

                      Birds and Influenza H5N1 Virus Movement to and within North America

                      #3748
                      馬丁
                      參加者

                        In the littoral the measures for the preventive maintenance of the bird influenza strengthened

                        In connection with the autumnal migration of birds in the territory
                        of Primorskiy Kray the measures for the preventive maintenance of
                        bird influenza are intensified. From July through September the
                        specialists of boundary veterinary service took more than 1 100 tests
                        of the blood in wild, migratory and poultry from the different
                        regions of littoral. Not one case of the disease of feathered by bird
                        influenza it is revealed.

                        Post edited by: martin, at: 2006/09/28 03:36

                        #3749
                        馬丁
                        參加者

                          Azerbaijani bird flu monitoring results announced

                          Azerbaijan’s Ecology and Natural Resources Ministry in conjunction
                          with Agriculture and Health Ministry has announced the results of the
                          next bird flu monitoring in the country, the Ministry told the APA.

                          The symptoms of bid flu have not been detected in any of the blood
                          samples taken from different wild birds during this monitoring. The
                          monitoring covered Absheron, Aggol, Shirvan National Parks,
                          Gizilagach State Reserve, Sarvan in Devechi region. /APA/

                          #3750
                          馬丁
                          參加者
                            引用:
                            The discussion, which was held by National Geographic Indonesia, concluded that migratory birds were not to blame for the movement of bird flu.

                            A vet from the Bogor Institute of Agriculture, I Wayan Teguh Wibawa, said separate studies had shown there was no proof anywhere in the world that migratory birds carried the virus.

                            Studies of migratory birds in Malaysia, China and Australia that have been carried out over the past six years have shown no migrant birds in the three regions had the H5N1 virus, he said.

                            Wayan, who is also a member of the National Commission for Bird Flu, said that the poultry trade was the most likely cause of the spread of the virus to 29 of Indonesia’s 33 provinces.

                            Cats can carry bird flu, study says [link no longer works; see next post]

                            Post edited by: martin, at: 2006/10/12 01:19

                            #3751

                            馬丁寫道:

                            引用:
                            Cats can carry bird flu, study says

                            Maybe a wrong redirecting link?? This one works. [not any longer! – Martin]

                            Thanks, Coleman – link to Jakarta Post item was working when I posted message, but not now. Martin

                             

                            #3752
                            馬丁
                            參加者

                              HUNTING AND AVIAN FLU PROBLEM IN VOLOGDA REGION In fall 2006 hunting season for monitoring of the avian flu purpose 70 samples of the wild ducks and geese was taken. All give negative results. According “Russian Hunting Newspaper” cancellation of the hunting on ducks, implemented in spring 2006, give limited positive results for amount of this birds in fall. Reason – wide scale “avian flu” preventive measures, when hundreds of wild birds was shoot without any place and time limits. Journalist hope, this officially supported wide scale poaching will not happen again.

                              #3753
                              馬丁
                              參加者
                                引用:
                                Now, with the disease still centered in Asia and the failure of migratory birds to spread the illness to Europe and North America, the H5N1 virus has dropped out of the media spotlight. The dearth of coverage has prompted some to think that the threat of a pandemic has passed. Health officials were surprised when flocks of migratory birds that had flown south to Africa and then back to Europe last spring didn't carry the H5N1 virus as expected. Neither did birds that wintered in Asia and flew to Alaska last summer to breed. International bird monitors also found no widespread deaths from the virus among migratory birds. Many experts now think that wild migratory birds are only bit players in the spread of the disease.

                                More likely culprits are humans who clean, feed and house infected domestic birds and those who prepare infected birds and transport them to commercial markets, said Rick Kearney, wildlife program coordinator with the U.S. Geological Survey. "Migratory birds may contract the disease and continue in their migration, but they clearly don't play a major or single role in spreading the disease," Kearney said.

                                Deadly bird flu not forgotten by U.S health officials

                                prompted me to send email to some folks interested in h5n1 and wild birds:

                                Just helps show the prevalence of stupidity regarding the H5N1 and wild birds issue. (And the effectiveness of smokescreen from poultry industry, obscuring real issues; rather as some in energy industry befuddling people re global warming; and before them, cigarette makers obfuscated re dangers of smoking.) I could of course say I told you so, but what the heck. (Not much from Robert Webster, say, lately. No repeat, for instance, of his notion that bird flu will kill half the world population. Bah!) Natural selection still works. But, ideas it doesn't have helped some people pocket money and keep quiet about actual science. Should be ashamed, but I doubt it, not when there are "debates" about evolution, global warming; Bush's war on science has proven sadly effective.

                                #3754
                                馬丁
                                參加者

                                  No sooner have I posted re health officials and stupidity re H5N1, than see David Nabarro, senior UN coordinator for anti-influenza activities, spouting forth:

                                  引用:
                                  He said in a note of optimism that North America had escaped the bird flu epidemic because of the 'very intense monitoring' system in the US and Canada of birds migrating from Siberia to Alaska and beyond in the Western Hemisphere.

                                  UN says worldwide cooperation may have thwarted bird flu spread

                                  :ohmy: What a ridiculous comment re monitoring stopping bird flu (part of a desperate attempt to save face; for this wasn't human pandemic, and indeed wild birds not carrying for long-cited reasons). If it worked, he could solve global warming by giving out lots of thermometers, and having people note temperatures over time. Heck, with this monitoring stopping disasters notion, he could be on to something; Nobel prizes galore. But really, he and other fools don't even deserve Ig Nobels.

                                  #3755
                                  馬丁
                                  參加者
                                    引用:
                                    A surveillance study conducted over the past year by the Forestry
                                    Ministry has found that migrating flocks of birds are not carrying
                                    strains of avian influenza.

                                    The H5N1 virus has so far only been found in either domesticated or
                                    farming poultry, says the Forestry Ministry’s conservation for
                                    biological resources director, Adi Susmiyanto.

                                    The ministry has been studying migratory and wild birds in locations
                                    and clusters prone to bird flu in the hopes of identifying the
                                    prevalence of the virus in the wild fowls.

                                    Migrating flocks declared H5N1-free – Jakarta Post

                                    #3756
                                    馬丁
                                    參加者
                                      引用:
                                      A regular monitoring on prevention of bird flue in the territory of
                                      Azerbaijan has been completed. The monitoring was held on the
                                      territories of the Absheron Peninsula, Davachi, Salyan, Aghdjabado,
                                      and Lankaran, as well as in the national parks, reserves, and coastal
                                      zone, Trend reports referring to a message spread by the State
                                      Veterinary Service of the Azerbaijan Agriculture Minister.

                                      Pathologic material was taken from 41 wild birds; blood was taken
                                      from 10 wild birds and 2,250 poultry. No signs of bird flue were
                                      detected as a result of laboratory examinations.

                                      During the monitoring, as before held by a commission of specialists
                                      of the State Service, Health Ministry, Ecology and Natural Resources
                                      Ministry, no facts on bird deaths was observed.

                                      The preceding monitoring had been held at the end of September, and
                                      its results did not show any appearances of the disease on the
                                      territory of the country.

                                      Regular Monitoring Did Not Detect Bird Flue in Azerbaijan

                                      #3757

                                      Migrating birds free from flu, ministry says Theresia Sufa, The Jakarta Post, Bogor None of a sample of migratory birds flying to Indonesia have tested positive for the deadly bird flu virus, a Forestry Ministry official says. Speaking at the Asia-Pacific Migratory Waterbird Conservation Committee meeting here Monday, Arman Mallolongan said the ministry had tested 695 migratory birds this year. All were found to be free from the virus, he said.

                                      #3758
                                      馬丁
                                      參加者

                                        Just seen a paper published in Waterbirds 29(3): 243-257, 2006:
                                        Avian Influenza: An Ecological and Evolutionary Perspective for Waterbird Scientists
                                        by SABIR BIN MUZAFFAR,RONALD C. Y DENBERG AND IAN L. JONES

                                        An excellent review; much of the info will be familiar to anyone who’s read several of the H5N1 and wild birds threads in this forum.

                                        Says that wild birds widely blamed for being major reservoirs and vectors of HPAI – by both media and some scientists – yet with little actual evidence.

                                        Good to see inclusion of evolutionary biology, citing Paul Ewald (see thread here on evolutionary biol). As the paper notes, this would predict evolution to low or non virulence in the wild – as wild birds have to fly long distances (“Dead Ducks Don’t Fly”) – and tendency for evolution to high virulence in poultry, especially in densely kept poultry.
                                        These predictions borne out by observations.

                                        Includes suggestion that wild birds may face threats from HPAI circulating in poultry, especially where – say – captive waterfowl mingle with wild birds, as at some wetlands in China.

                                        #3759
                                        馬丁
                                        參加者

                                          Just posted this to birdforum (thread on current UK outbreak – in industrial turkey farm): (quoting a poster)":are you saying that … H5N1 has travelled to EC from it's source in China/Hong Kong in 1996/1997 solely via the movement of domestic birds?" Simple answer: Yes. And Hong Kong wasn't necessarily source. More re that yes: solely by the poultry industry. Including smuggling, dead birds, perhaps "silently" in vaccinated live birds, in poultry manure (within feed and as fertiliser), on dirty crates, on boots etc. FAO promoted practice of using chicken manure, bits of dead chickens as feed in fish farms helping sustain H5N1. (I've seen this happening in Indonesia; got photos and short article on my DocMartin site – don't view if it's dinnertime). So, also saying FAO has inadvertently helped in spread of H5N1. Re HK: known as place where H5N1 of concern identified (really, Guangong farm goose 1997). But I've seen re avian flu people reckoning there's connection (traced in DNA) with a bird flu in UK – Scotland in 1959: The price of cheap chicken is bird flu (well worth a read; includes

                                          "The truly great ruse is that industrial poultry farms are the best way to produce chickens "). In a sense then, it's come home again. H5N1 into wild – it dies out pretty fast, largely as it kills most birds it infects. Typically, see a few individuals, even scavengers such as crows (and, as Mike mentioned, can be birds of prey) and that's it. Indeed saw waterbirds move west with H5N1 when eastern Europe became v cold late last winter, but then no evidence of further spread (you know of real evidence for this: tell us). Indeed, at one site, infected swans found on pond [Romania?], where other wild birds tested didn't have H5N1. – regular wild bird flus abound in infected waterbird faeces; H5N1 in lower amounts faeces, mainly in trachea. H5N1 suits those crowded poultry farms; it's evolved and continues to evolve in them. Also interesting it has better survival in warm water than regular wild bird flu: again, shift away from best suiting migratory northern breeding waterfowl; maybe better fit with ponds inc fishponds in southeast Asia? H5N1 (variants of concern, that is – H5N1 can be found rarely in wild waterbirds as low pathogenic flu) has evolved in poultry farms; in the kinds of farms where birds crammed in together. Whilst not shilly-shallying here: no wild bird species known to be able to survive and sustain and spread H5N1.

                                          #3760
                                          馬丁
                                          參加者

                                            Recent Promed post included:

                                            引用:
                                            “Movements of birds and avian influenza from Asia into Alaska.” Kevin
                                            Winkler et. al.

                                            抽象的:
                                            Asian-origin avian influenza (AI) viruses are spread in part by
                                            migratory birds. In Alaska, diverse avian hosts from Asia and the
                                            Americas overlap in a region of intercontinental avifaunal mixing.
                                            This region is hypothesized to be a zone of Asia-to-America virus
                                            transfer because birds there can mingle in waters contaminated by
                                            wild-bird-origin AI viruses. Our 7 years of AI virus surveillance
                                            among waterfowl and shorebirds in this region (1998-2004; 8254
                                            samples) showed remarkably low infection rates (0.06 percent) [There
                                            were only 5 positive samples, and none were H5. – Mod.MHJ]. Our
                                            findings suggest an Arctic effect on viral ecology caused perhaps by
                                            low ecosystem productivity and low host densities relative to
                                            available water. Combined with a synthesis of avian diversity and
                                            abundance, intercontinental host movements, and genetic analyses, our
                                            results suggest that the risk and probably the frequency of
                                            intercontinental virus transfer in this region are relatively low.

                                            full article at:
                                            http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/13/4/06-1072.htm

                                            #3761
                                            馬丁
                                            參加者

                                              Review appearing in ornithological journal Ibis, now online. Includes:

                                              引用:
                                              The phenology and geographical pattern of expansion of the HPAI H5N1 does not correspond to the pattern of bird migration. First, it took several months for the virus to spread from China to the Balkans. Migratory birds such as ducks and waders travel several hundred kilometres in a single day. If migrating birds mainly dispersed the virus, the virus should also spread by large jumps of thousands of kilometres, throughout the migratory stopping places of Asia and Africa. The observed expansion has rather been by a progressive expansion from isolated outbreaks, the geographical pattern of which corresponds well with major routes and patterns of human commerce.

                                              Secondly, from July 2005 onwards, if migratory birds were a main agent of dispersal, one would have expected massive mortalities of wild birds, both in the breeding areas and along all migratory routes, as bird populations would have been encountering this virus for the first time. However, only sporadic cases were observed. The cases in Western Europe after the cold spell on the Black Sea showed that the virus can spread through infected wild birds travelling short distances (Feare 2007), but no evidence for long-distance transmission during seasonal migration has yet been found (Feare 2007). Analysing 52 introduction events into countries, Kilpatrick et al. (2006) concluded that both poultry and the trade in wild birds represent a larger risk than migratory birds for the introduction of HPAI H5N1 to the Americas. In summary, although it remains possible that a migratory bird can spread the virus HPAI H5N1 and contaminate poultry, the evidence overwhelmingly supports the hypothesis that human movements of domestic poultry have been the main agent of global dispersal of the virus to date.

                                              The occurrence of an outbreak at a commercial turkey farm in Suffolk, England, in February 2007 fits this wider pattern. In spite of the absence of evidence that migratory birds play a major role in the dispersal of the virus, many statements to this effect were made by international institutions, non-governmental organizations and media, and a debate between epidemiologists and ecologists followed (e.g. Normile 2005, 2006a, 2006b, Fergus et al. 2006). However, from autumn 2005 it was largely presented as fact that migratory birds were the main potential agent of global dispersal (e.g. Derenne & Bricaire 2005, FAO 2005), even as evidence emerged in Asia that spread was mainly mediated by human activities (Melville & Shortridge 2004). OIE reports (e.g. OIE 2005, 2006a, 2006c) indicated that the source of outbreaks was contact with migratory birds, but offered no evidence to support this assertion and contributed to the inappropriate emphasis on migratory birds, thus reducing the probability that alternative mechanisms such as poultry movements were fully considered in individual cases. In spite of the declarations of the Nigerian Minister of Agriculture on the probability of the introduction of the virus via the poultry trade (Euro Surveillance 2006), the FAO continued to implicate migratory birds, thus denying problems associated with commercial exchanges. The natural globalization of the exchanges of migratory birds seemed to hide the globalization – without strict health control – of the exchanges of poultry as the accepted mechanism for disease spread. By May 2006, an international conference in Rome had recognized that the virus was mainly spread through the poultry trade, both legal and illegal, but OIE and FAO media releases (FAO 2006b, OIE 2006b) continued to focus on the possible contribution of spread by wild birds.

                                              Given that a key part of the remit of the FAO is to develop international agricultural trade, reticence to accept that this trade is the main agent of global dispersal of HPAI H5N1 is perhaps unsurprising.

                                              Recent expansion of highly pathogenic avian influenza H5N1: a critical review[/url] also in Ibis, a Viewpoint article by Professor Chris Feare, includes:

                                              引用:
                                              The most recent outbreak in western Europe, at a turkey farm in Suffolk, UK, is alluded to by Gauthier-Clerc et al. but evidence that has become available since their review was written illustrates many of the problems of H5N1 reporting. The outbreak was first blamed on wild birds, which veterinary investigators reported at the site and this received high press prominence. …

                                              The 10 February 2007 issue of New Scientist magazine included a map of Suffolk showing the outbreak location and highlighting the proximity of the RSPB's Minsmere ‘wildfowl’ reserve. …

                                              The preliminary Defra report on the outbreak commented on site biosecurity including workers changing footwear on entering the turkey sheds. Biosecurity in parts of southeast Asia involves removing all clothing, walking through a hot shower, and then putting on a complete set of clean clothing inside the premises.

                                              #3762
                                              馬丁
                                              參加者

                                                New paper out from China, mentions:

                                                引用:
                                                EWHC [H5N1 type] was isolated from a Eurasian widgeon in a large lake [in central China] where many widgeons were found dead.

                                                – maybe first report re these dead “widgeons” (maybe other species too, I’d guess). At time when wild birds being readily blamed for spreading H5N1. Yet here’s further evidence that wild birds not asymptomatic carriers, for as we all know, Dead Ducks Don’t Fly.

                                                Avian Influenza (H5N1) Virus in Waterfowl and Chickens, Central China

                                                #3763
                                                馬丁
                                                參加者

                                                  早在 2004 年 2 月,我就收到了家禽流感專家 Carol Cardona, inc. 的電子郵件

                                                  引用:
                                                  我推測人類移動鳥類的原因應該是
                                                  沒有被排除為這種疾病傳播的嫌疑人的是,在我看來
                                                  經歷過病死的鴨子飛不遠。但是,人們可以很容易地
                                                  將病禽移走數英里。這些運動可能是合法的,也可能是非法的,但是
                                                  在疾病爆發時,它們通常會發生。我不認為會遷移
                                                  鳥類作為主要傳播者可能會被淘汰,但你永遠不能低估
                                                  人類轉移疾病的能力。

                                                  從那以後,我將其簡化為「死鴨子不會飛」——但也添加了更多內容,查看了很多資訊。

                                                  然而,許多瘋狂的聲明都提到了攜帶 H5N1 的候鳥,和/或準備將其運送到全球各個角落(你見過亨利·尼曼最粗魯的白痴嗎? - 啊啊!!0

                                                  疾病預防控制中心網站上的論文探討了這個問題,結論與卡多納的電子郵件中的結論非常相似。

                                                  抽象的:

                                                  引用:
                                                  候鳥是 H5N1 亞型高致病性禽流感病毒遠距離傳播的罪魁禍首,這一說法是基於這樣的假設:受感染的野生鳥類可以保持無症狀,並且不受阻礙地長距離遷徙。我們從生態免疫學的角度批判性地評估了這個說法,生態免疫學是一個在生態、生理和演化背景下分析免疫功能的研究領域。長途遷徙是動物世界中要求最高的活動之一。我們表明,多項研究表明,這種長時間、劇烈的運動會導致免疫抑制,並且遷移性能會受到感染的負面影響。這些發現使得野生鳥類不太可能沿著既定的長距離遷徙路徑傳播病毒。然而,受感染、有症狀的野生鳥類可能成為短距離的媒介,正如 2006 年初在歐洲發生的那樣。

                                                  最後一句:

                                                  引用:
                                                  候鳥已經受到棲息地破壞和氣候變遷的影響;危言聳聽的言論指責移民造成了一種具有大流行潛力的新疾病的傳播,並忽視或低估了家禽業的作用,這並不能公正地反映所涉問題的複雜性

                                                  候鳥禽流感(H5N1)的生態免疫學

                                                  我發送給aiwatch(禽流感和野鳥小組)的進一步評論:

                                                  那麼,為什麼許多人普遍指責野生鳥類呢?
                                                  應該更了解──當然是糧農組織的多梅內克(糧農組織有多少
                                                  隱藏,希望不被廣泛看見?);甚至有些據稱
                                                  “保守主義者”? [金錢幫助後者避免說實話?]

                                                  多少鳥兒被驚嚇而死;有多少人不必要地害怕
                                                  在現代的政治迫害中野鳥?
                                                  有多少小農戶的生計因野生動物而受到嚴重破壞
                                                  據稱鳥類將帶來禽流感;而大雞
                                                  像伯納德·馬修斯這樣的公司一直在愉快地運輸
                                                  蛋/小雞/家禽來回移動,放錯文件或
                                                  任何?

                                                  有人站出來對自己在這一切中所扮演的角色表示羞恥嗎?
                                                  我看不出來,儘管現在有些人比較安靜了。

                                                  有人看過FAO關於韓國局勢的報告嗎:這是被推的嗎
                                                  一旦出現野生鳥類就不再是媒介,遠離聚光燈
                                                  那裡? [好奇的尼爾摩爾斯被告知從網站上刪除他的帳戶:
                                                  它實際上是錯誤的,還是只是講述了「錯誤」的故事?
                                                  方便大雞粉絲。]

                                                  還有多少地方還在用雞糞和屍體餵魚?
                                                  – 有人研究過這是否不是一個好主意
                                                  全部?或者,太忙於成為獵巫人。

                                                  #3764
                                                  馬丁
                                                  參加者

                                                    Another paper out in continuing hunt for the Tooth Fairy Bird (which can survive and sustain and spread H5N1 poultry flu). Experiments showed that Mallard may be a candidate species; but other ducks, such as Tufted Duck, liable to die when infected, so maybe sentinels. I’ve just posted to aiwatch group:

                                                    引用:
                                                    I’m not so up to speed re wild ducks etc n h5n1 – after all, seems to me the story is so often the same old same old; here we have more of the search for the Tooth Fairy BIrd, with suggestion it might exist (as a mallard) but not actually found. I recalled work by Webster n co – leading Tooth Fairy Bird chasers! – which involved H5N1 that was virulent to mallard. I’ve the paper someplace, but easier to google for quick info; and find: "In laboratory experiments in mallard ducks, it rapidly shifted from being potentially fatal to causing only asymptomatic infections. Nevertheless, it remained highly virulent to domestic chickens and, presumably, to people. A resilient wild waterfowl, such as the mallard, could therefore become a permanent biological reservoir for a strain of avian flu with pandemic-causing potential."

                                                    I wonder, then, re the strain used in the newer TF Bird experiments: not quite the same as some strains, inc used by Webster. Once again, we have evolution to the rescue. I know virologists – many of them – don’t believe in it, instead looking to mutations and mixing, but not evolving; don’t really know why this is: too busy peering into microscopes to see wider pictures? Again: a virus getting from poultry farms to wild will evolve to low pathogenicity in wild birds (as Webster’s rather simple experiments showed – simple compared to the wild that is). I’d like to again ask: has there been anything like the effort expended in blaming wild birds used to assess the situation re official and unofficial poultry trade? – or is the situation that, with poultry trade and friends having the main money for H5N1 research, the funding tends to go into areas that can point finger of blame away from poultry industry? So far, silence re this.

                                                    You can find the paper re Mallard etc at: http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/14/4/600.htm

                                                    #3765

                                                    Tooth Fairy Bird visits Switzerland The Swiss federal veterinary department reported an asymptomatic Pochard (Anythya ferina), found on Lake Sempach (near Lucern). The duck shows no signs of infection, the office sayd. Most interesting point: According to the Swiss federal veterinary department, they cought the duck during a regular detection programme, tested it H5N1 hpai positive – and then let it fly. Unbelieveable – but true.

                                                    (Sorry, related article only availeable in german language, please use "babelfish", "google translations" or another tool if needed) [.. Vogelgrippe: Nach zwei Jahren wieder ein Fall Das hochansteckende Vogelgrippevirus H5N1 ist in der Schweiz bei einer Tafelente auf dem Sempachersee gefunden worden. Zusätzliche Massnahmen zu den bereits getroffenen sind aber keine vorgesehen. Der im Rahmen des Überwachungsprogramms kontrollierte Wasservogel, eine Tafelente, zeigte aber keinerlei Krankheitssymptome. Es ist das erste Mal in der Schweiz, dass der Vogelgrippe-Erreger bei einem lebenden Vogel gefunden wurde.Die Tafelente sei zwar Trägerin des Virus, die Krankheit sei aber nicht ausgebrochen, sagte der Sprecher des Bundesamt für Veterinärwesen (BVET). Nach der Untersuchung wurde das Tier wieder fliegen gelassen. Bisher wurden in der Schweiz 33 Fälle von Vogelgrippe gezählt – alle bei tot gefundenen Wasservögeln. Die Kadaver stammten alle entweder vom Genfer– oder vom Bodensee und waren zwischen Ende Februar und Ende März 2006 gefunden worden. ..] See also: http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=nw20080327144054153C696658 and the website of the Swiss federal veterinary department

                                                    Nearby three hundred millions of healthy birds were worldwide killed 'n culled to prevent the "next great pandemic".. and the swissmen says "No much dangereous virus in all, less risk for humans and poultry.. no need to take action.." Wat's going on? First signs that some officials changing their paradigm? All the best, Werner

                                                  查看 31 則貼文(共 57 則)
                                                  • 您必須登入才能回覆此主題。