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  • in reply to: I don’t believe wild birds are spreading h5n1 #3765

    Tooth Fairy Bird visits Switzerland The Swiss federal veterinary department reported an asymptomatic Pochard (Anythya ferina), found on Lake Sempach (near Lucern). The duck shows no signs of infection, the office sayd. Most interesting point: According to the Swiss federal veterinary department, they cought the duck during a regular detection programme, tested it H5N1 hpai positive – and then let it fly. Unbelieveable – but true.

    (Sorry, related article only availeable in german language, please use "babelfish", "google translations" or another tool if needed) [.. Vogelgrippe: Nach zwei Jahren wieder ein Fall Das hochansteckende Vogelgrippevirus H5N1 ist in der Schweiz bei einer Tafelente auf dem Sempachersee gefunden worden. Zusätzliche Massnahmen zu den bereits getroffenen sind aber keine vorgesehen. Der im Rahmen des Überwachungsprogramms kontrollierte Wasservogel, eine Tafelente, zeigte aber keinerlei Krankheitssymptome. Es ist das erste Mal in der Schweiz, dass der Vogelgrippe-Erreger bei einem lebenden Vogel gefunden wurde.Die Tafelente sei zwar Trägerin des Virus, die Krankheit sei aber nicht ausgebrochen, sagte der Sprecher des Bundesamt für Veterinärwesen (BVET). Nach der Untersuchung wurde das Tier wieder fliegen gelassen. Bisher wurden in der Schweiz 33 Fälle von Vogelgrippe gezählt – alle bei tot gefundenen Wasservögeln. Die Kadaver stammten alle entweder vom Genfer– oder vom Bodensee und waren zwischen Ende Februar und Ende März 2006 gefunden worden. ..] See also: and the website of the Swiss federal veterinary department

    Nearby three hundred millions of healthy birds were worldwide killed 'n culled to prevent the "next great pandemic".. and the swissmen says "No much dangereous virus in all, less risk for humans and poultry.. no need to take action.." Wat's going on? First signs that some officials changing their paradigm? All the best, Werner

    in reply to: Debora MacKenzie of New Sci vs conservationists #4241

    Hi Martin, maybe interesting too: The actual outbreak in Al-Khari (Saudi Arabia). Location is 150 Km south of Riyadh. My investigations shows that it must be the AL-KHMEES SONS COMPANY Po Box 6929 11942 Al Kharj Saudi Arabia Poultry Company. Infected species: Chicken (not clar yet if broiler or egg-industry). First official statements (like in GB): "Wild- or migratory birds" as "most likely explaination". But there are neither wild nor migratory birds. Google maps sattelite photos shows only desert in this area.

    Re outbreaks in GB: There are some interesting movies on (especially "Biosecurity" related) : Christmas Turkeys Infected With Deadly Virus (will send you some pictures by mail in addition) Another topic: What the hell das this News fom bangladesh means: 

    [.. And though a permanent relationship between migratory birds and bird flu has yet to be proven beyond a doubt, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), "scientists are increasingly convinced that some migratory waterfowl are now carrying the H5N1 virus in its highly pathogenic form, sometimes over long distances, and introducing the virus to poultry flocks in areas that lie along their migratory routes" – all of which worries health officials in Bangladesh. ..] All the best, Werner

    in reply to: Bird flu hits France!!! (humour and h5n1) #3888


    in reply to: Outbreak in Nuernberg/Germany proven #4468
    BERLIN (AFP) – Six wild birds in Germany have died of the feared H5N1 strain of bird flu, a German institute said on Sunday. Six out of a total of 14 birds tested positive for the H5N1 strain of the virus, the Friedrich Loeffler Institute institute said. A health official, Katja Guenther, said earlier that tests carried out by the same institute confirmed that two swans and a wild goose had been infected with H5N1. Tests were still being conducted on another five birds which had died of bird flu to see whether they too had been carriers of H5N1, which is potentially lethal for humans. The dead wild birds infected with the virus were found at two lakes near Nuremberg in the past week. Guenther said local authorities had cordoned off an area with a four-kilometre (2.5-mile) radius from where the diseased birds were found. Nobody will be allowed to bring birds into the area or take them out from there for the next three weeks, and poultry in the area must be kept indoors for the same period. The Friedrich Loeffler Institute was reported as saying the new German cases of H5N1 avian flu could be related to an outbreak of the virus in the Czech Republic. H5N1 was found on a poultry farm in the central Czech Republic last week, prompting the slaughter of some 6,000 turkeys. Germany battled a bird flu epidemic last year. It broke out on the Baltic Sea island of Ruegen and spread to six of the country’s 16 states, including Bavaria. The disease spread to mammals, infecting three cats and a stone marten, but did not affect humans. The last reported case in Germany of the highly pathogenic strain of bird flu was reported in Dresden in August last year. It killed a swan in the eastern city’s zoo. According to the World Health Organisation, bird flu has claimed more than 130 lives worldwide since 2003, mostly in southeast Asia.

    Werner PS: Martin, please delete my other posting on this topic. There was something wrong with my webbrowser.. .

    in reply to: Tooth Fairy Bird reaches Kuwait #4454

    Hi Martin:

    AThat’s in fact correct. Only whether the poultry is urgently necessary may be doubted. According to a report of the WHO foods are destroyed annually for 6 billion people because they can not be sold and do give that away “the prices bust would do”. It goes actually not to get the people fully at all with this frightful production method for that, but only around the profit of the producers. But that is another topic (also when it with respect to the origin of epidemics, identical whether BSE, SARS or poultry plague, is absolutely from relevance).

    Frightening I find particularly the Lobbyism which one with all means attempts to prevent that the risks of the production method poultry industry objectively judges and in public are expressed.

    With this topic I remember an old German industrial standard (In the meantime compensated DIN for by ISO, to be dropped more precisely without being replaced):

    (I try to translate precisely as possible)

    DIN 31 000
    “General guiding principles for safetyfair arranging of technical products.” (applies in the core probably also to biological products)

    With the safetyfair organization to that solution preference is to be given, by which the protection goal is technically meaningfully best reached and economically. The safety-relevant requirements have in the doubt the priority before economic considerations.

    Something comparable would be surely overdue regarding the poultry industry already.. ;)


    in reply to: Tooth Fairy Bird reaches Kuwait #4452

    In addition to the 20 cases reported sunday:

    Source ::: AFP

    kuwait city • Kuwait has detected 12 new cases of the bird flu strain that is dangerous to humans in poultry at two farms in the emirate, the health ministry said yesterday.

    But a first batch of tests carried out on people who had been in contact with infected fowl all proved negative, ministry spokesman Ahmad Al Shatti said. “We have found nine chickens and three turkeys infected with the deadly H5N1 strain of the disease at two locations,” Shatti said.

    One was the Wafra farms area on the border with Saudi Arabia, which was one of the places where the strain was first reported on Sunday. The other was in Doha, just west of Kuwait City. Hundred of birds have been culled.

    He said that more people who had been in contact with the infected birds were being tested and that the results should be known today. The other cases of the strain confirmed on Sunday were among falcons and captive birds at Kuwait Zoo. The authorities have closed the zoo and the capital’s bird market, and imposed a ban on all imports or exports of poultry products and live birds, including falcons.

    There are some eternally repeated phrases spread by the press agencies which makes me very angry (these hollow phrases are everywhere in the world and in each language of same content):

    A first batch of tests™”

    Comment: The force of expression of “quick tests” may be doubted. These show usually only the presence of an Influenzavirus. Precise subtyping requires a laboratory-diagnostic PCR as an accompanying serological investigation (also the PCR, due to sequencing, saves error potential). Without laboratory-diagnostic security those “quick tests” are comparable with the crystal ball of a fortune teller. Therefore the blind actionism resulting from it is not to be justified.

    Bird flu strain that is dangerous to humans™”

    Comment: Of course, it is. Around 250 people died as an result of H5N1 infection. However this statement is too general. For the sake of the objectivity an exact view of the conditions would be under which the infections necessarily took place.

    The deadly H5N1 strain™”

    Comment: The H5N1 hpai Strain is primary deadly for birds. In addition it seems to me as flocks from poultry industry is more sensitively to an infection than free-living, immune-stable wild birds. Still more: Seems that in fact the poultry industry is a cause for the emergence of highly pathogenic viruses. Martin wrote some truth about natural wild bird flus on other place of this forum. In nature highly pathogenic virus mutations arise always only temporarly and mean only a mismatching to a (new) species. Were an stupid situation for an Virus to kill all of his hosts..

    xxxxxxx of birds have been culled™”
    (x has to be replaced at will by as large a number of birds as possible)

    Comment: This “search and destroy” philosophy brings up some collateral damage. The always better method would be “quarantine and watching”. A cause is probably missing realization with many humans. Just like they think that problems can be solved by throwing some bombs on it, they believe in culling viruses. That is foolish: Because either the virus is in nature endemically or not. If it however (when low pathogenic variant) in nature is endemic, then they could culling many chickens as they want. The virus becomes never loose one thereby. Only solution would to kill all birds. Worldwide. But before this happens, I will declare my own, personal war on those who want to do so..

    By the way: The IDTVdb (Universal Virus Database of the International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses, ) contains thousands of several viruses. Because of evolution and mutation – In particular by genetic engineering (“New Science”) – at least a potential risk exists for mankind with each virus listed there. H5N1 is a current, but not the only problem of mankind.

    In order to say it again clearly: H5N1 hpai is entirely man-made. To take those poor creatures (poultry flocks and wild birds) as scapegoats which are in fact result (better: Victims) of oeconomic production methods, is the summit of lyingness.

    I wanted to have said that once here. Apology if I thereby from the actual topic deviated too much.


    in reply to: Tooth Fairy Bird reaches Kuwait #4451

    Martin wrote:

    I’d never heard of chickens for Chechens!

    Clinton promised 1995 to shut up because of the violations of human rights in Chechnya, and for Yeltsins presidency candidacy to supported, if the Russians would not refuse any longer to leave Tysons Chicken in the country which were not considered to date as with the Russian food acts compatible. Send you an short article by mail related to this.

    Martin wrote:

    Seen re possible reports of industrial farms kind of dumping (at low prices?) birds that maybe they know to be sick, to backyard farms. Then, when H5N1 infections found, blame wild birds.

    Absolutely. Agreeing with you, and think that we should examine that point more near.


    Post edited by: Werner, at: 2007/02/26 12:51

    in reply to: Tooth Fairy Bird reaches Kuwait #4449

    Martin wrote:

    Hi Werner: Indeed, clinics not normal resting places for migratory birds. Falconry is very popular in the Middle East – falcons caught/traded from many places (even Mongolia/n China I believe). I’d expect, then, that the clinic treats falconers’ birds. Now H5N1 has reached poultry in Kuwait, maybe also to some of the chickens or whatever the falcons are normally fed on.

    That is also always my first thought, if the speech is from infected carnivores. Already in the case of the Northern Hawk Owls in the Rotterdamer Zoo (summer 2006) was the most obvious thought that the transmission must have taken place via contaminated fodder (ie day old chicks, with the ability to conserve an Virus in frozen condition quite over several months). Martin wrote:

    (Rather as in HK – at least one dead peregrine with H5N1 apparently from captivity [illegal]; I’d reckoned that likely fed on infected poultry.) Martin

    Interesting would be surely also an investigation of the current Russian outbreaks. With Russia the "CHECHENS FOR CHICKENS" affair.

    At all it would be to be examined surely very interesting once, which trade relations between the backyard fowl and the poultry industry exist. I have there my own theory, which concerns the exchange of immune-insufficient flocks between the poultry industry and the backyard poultry. An aspect is surely the transfer of contaminated fodder. Another would also be the trade by breeding selection (hope that’s the right spelling for "Zuechterische Selektion"), genetically unstable and illness-susceptible, degenerated living animals. Werner

    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4445

    Hi Martin:

    several month ago i wrote an article related to “Risk Communication”, titled “Medienseuche” – Wie H5N1 die Redaktionen befaellt” (“media epidemic” – like H5N1 the editorships strikes). The full article is available (in german) at

    Here’s -in part – the automacally translated version – too much trouble for me to translate it manually.. :blush:

    May be it nevertheless helps some readers to understand, what proceeds in the editorships.

    How does it result actually in such media phenomena which ones always remind of “synchromesh” a little bit also in their appearance?

    Cause 1 – “sales promotion” and “Story-Spinning”
    It is natural for journalists – without scientific-technical medical training and faced with inconsistent expert opinions – difficult, theirs Criticism, Control and Morning warn-function to come later and to practice risk communication so that recipients can assess a danger potential realistically. Also self-interest of journalists and media enterprises at a “good story” are frequent, however, now during the risk communication with responsibly for the kind and manner, as risks in the media hysterized or also played down and to be kept quiet in a dead way.

    Risk communication is public-dependent reporting[23]. Is blown up, which can be sold. Current, new risk topics wear a higher reporting chance than long-term topics, in this case that the reader and spectator shaft has accustomed. Such long-term risk topics are faded out then media because their market value was exhausted.

    Common Over- and Underreporting above risks through the majority of the mass medium let in turn through research-economics declare. Under competition and time pressure time-consuming investigative research becomes a rare product [23]. Only an only source used [24 becomes frequent]. At complex risk themes journalists rely on top of that with pleasure on “official” springs (Kitzinger 1997: 325) or onto the opinion of that expert, that available and media-turned – however not absolutely scientific the first choice is (Grefe 2000; Thomann 2002).

    Cause 2 – economics of the research
    Finally also the colleague orientation appertains to the economics of the research. Journalists jump with pleasure onto the train of the other media – and also their errors write then off and/or away. The here examined project areas is one common: To follow in the financial statement payment just the same as in the risk communication journalists the herd instinct. Instead of “informing” about the real relations and developments, they become easy – without wanting it – “victims of groupthink” (Janis 1972; Kepplinger 2001) and in this way victim of “collective self-consciousness”. Just in a hard competition, so those ones have US- media economists Andrei Shleifer and found out Sendhil Mullainathan, media become often amazing in their reporting similar to. They interpret the phenomenon as a form of the herd behavior as it is to be observed also at financial markets.

    The result is a reporting agreeing on big trains with which journalistic care and accuracy remain on the stretch: It can be rather “rational” to stamp with the herd consistently. According to this model it is often reasonable for the single journalist, an introduced topic, a plausible and to a large extent acknowledged history spreading – as long as the public is interested at that. On the other hand to take an alternative point of view and to prepare for the against search would be afflicted with more expenditure and with more economic risks. Who opposes the herd, risked to be trampled on. It is risky to disappoint the expectations of the heads, colleagues and also many media consumers. Latter ones could be induced to consuming another media product which rather corresponds to their expectations.

    Economically squeezed out, media presented a great stimulus for the sake of the own advantage their reporting in hard competition slightly consumable, to adjust the research on one side and to leave out contradicting facts.

    So also what must come out comes out then under the line: Stupid education citizens and less intelligent voters in the best of all systems. A rogue who thinks evil in this case.

    Werner Hupperich

    [23] “The competition and the time pressure of the media speed up topic careers and excitement cycles; To produce information shortcomings in a matched way with chronological pressure with the reporting rapid a charge of the opinion climate in which objective purification is in an exceptional way complicated. … The time for thorough journalistic research is granted less and less. In this way the danger increases from misjudgements, as also the danger of an instrumentalization of the media for the production of excitement cycles (” Quiver 2002″: 69 f). Willis states that quickness is even more important for the marketability of media nowadays than accuracy: “In fact, one could make the case that speed is more marketable today than accuracy. The publics appetite for the latest factoids and blips of the bizarre seems almost insatiable.” (Willis 1997: 20). An increase at research would contribute to the quality improvement of the risk communication unquestionably: «Their information» are «gotten for journalists and journalists in direct and personal meetings with springs, they work then more precisely and their ,storys’ less mistakes contain (» Schanne / Meier 1996»: 66).

    [24] This economics of the research leads source variety to be lacked. According to Goepfert even science reports name only an only source in the high-quality press to 40 %. The half of the science reporting of German newspapers is based on agency announcements, a third of them on announcement of the dpa which employed only two science editors in 2001. Also on the subcontractor page saves (Goepfert 2001: 68-92).


    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4441

    As Japanese scientists believe to have now determined, rats could have carried the virus in the case of the outbreak on the island Kyushu into the sheds (I to hold it thereby for more probably that rats viruses from the sheds carried.).

    (The AHO News in german:

    Also with Bernard Matthews is to have concerned that it was a paradise for rats. The official version professor Oxfords became probably reads: The Tooth fairy bird met in the ventilation shaft with the rats to a conspiratorial meeting, sneezed these thereby strongly in their faces, and the rats infected then for their part the turkeys.

    The factory farm at the centre of the bird flu alert was a haven for scavenging birds and rats, while the turkey sheds were filthy with dilapidated roofs.

    The damning picture emerged from an official inquiry into the outbreak on a Suffolk farm at the heart of the Bernard Matthews turkey meat empire. ..



    PS: Martin, i think we need an expert in migratory rats. May be the Tooth fairy bird is an rat piper (modern variant of the Hameln Pied Piper)? :P

    Post edited by: Werner, at: 2007/02/20 10:11

    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4439

    Bernard Matthews firm could face prosecution over bird flu outbreak
    By Nigel Morris, Home Affairs Correspondent
    Published: 12 February 2007

    Lorry-loads of poultry products could have been transported out of the British farm which suffered a major outbreak of bird flu, the Government has admitted.

    An exclusion zone was put in place around the Bernard Matthews plant in Holton when the deadly strain of H5N1 was identified last week. But a diplomatic row was brewing last night between London and Budapest after Hungary said that tons of meat had been sent from Holton to the central European country since the restrictions were imposed.

    Lajos Bognar, Hungary’s chief vet, told Channel 4 News: “I can say that from the protection zone, from the UK, six trucks arrived from there last week to Hungary.”

    His claim brought a bizarre new twist to the avian flu saga as experts believe that the Suffolk cases can be traced directly back to an outbreak of an identical strain of the H5N1 virus in Hungary. The Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) conceded such shipments out of Holton could have taken place since the avian flu outbreak.

    A spokesman said: “Depending on the type of product, date of slaughter and which farm it originated on, it is possible that poultry product from the Suffolk plant could have met the licensing requirements for movement outside the restricted area.”

    Channel 4 claimed that the decision to grant the licence would have been made before it was clear that poultry, rather than wild birds, was the likely source of the infection.

    The Government was also forced to defend a decision to continue allowing imports of turkey meat from Hungary after the H5N1 virus was discovered there. Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat environment spokesman, called for a Commons statement on Defra’s effort to protect the public from “what would be a devastating mutation into a virus contagious between humans”.

    But Defra insisted that it had been legal to import the meat as it originated from outside the “restriction zone” around the Hungarian infection. David Miliband, the Environment Secretary, said that blocking imports from a wider area would have been a breach of EU rules and could have invited a devastating continent-wide retaliation against the UK poultry industry.

    Meanwhile, the Government hinted that Bernard Matthews could be prosecuted over the bird flu outbreak as fears grew that infected turkey could have entered the human food chain. Ministers said it was now clear there had been a “biosecurity lapse” at the Suffolk plant.

    Investigators are focusing on the import of turkey meat by the company from a slaughterhouse 30 miles from the source of the Hungarian outbreak of avian flu. One possibility is that the meat became cross-contaminated in the slaughterhouse with the virus and brought small doses of it into the UK. It could then have been transferred at Holton into sheds housing live birds.


    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4438
    “The Sunday Times reported today that the Government allowed Bernard Matthews to continue importing turkey meat from a bird flu-hit region of Hungary even though it suspected the area was the source of the British outbreak.

    A consignment of 20 tons of turkey was imported last Tuesday from a slaughterhouse in Hungary, three days after avian flu was confirmed at the Bernard Matthews plant in Suffolk.

    Government inspectors knew in advance that Bernard Matthews intended to import the meat from a slaughterhouse only 30 miles away from the Hungarian outbreak – but did nothing to stop it.

    A spokesman for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) admitted on Saturday that it had the power to block such meat imports but had decided not to do so.”

    “It meant that meat potentially carrying the flu virus was carried straight through protective cordons set up around the Suffolk plant to prevent the spread of avian flu.

    The Hungarian meat was then processed at the plant in Holton, where a near-identical strain of the H5N1 bird flu virus had led to the cull of nearly 160,000 turkeys.

    Investigators from the Food Standards Agency were this weekend checking to see if any of the processed imported meat had been distributed to shops. The investigation could lead to a mass recall of Bernard Matthews products.”

    “On Tuesday the vets were notified by Bernard Matthews about a new consignment of 40 tons of poultry from Hungary. Half was from the company’s headquarters in the northwest, but the other half was from the slaughterhouse in the bird flu-hit southeast of the country.

    Despite the fact that the slaughterhouse in Kecskemet was just 30 miles from the restricted zone, and despite the suspicions over its link to the British outbreak, vets decided not to block the imports.
    On Tuesday the vets were notified by Bernard Matthews about a new consignment of 40 tons of poultry from Hungary. Half was from the company’s headquarters in the northwest, but the other half was from the slaughterhouse in the bird flu-hit southeast of the country.

    Despite the fact that the slaughterhouse in Kecskemet was just 30 miles from the restricted zone, and despite the suspicions over its link to the British outbreak, vets decided not to block the imports.”

    “Mr Miliband denied misleading Parliament about the suspected Hungarian link to the Suffolk bird flu outbreak, insisting that he kept MPs informed of the latest advice the Government was receiving from scientists. He said it was now clear that there had been “a bio-security lapse” at the Suffolk factory farm which allowed contamination to get from a processing plant into the sheds housing live birds.

    A Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs spokesman said that the import of the 20 tons of meat was “perfectly legal”, as it came from outside a 10km exclusion zone and a 30km restriction zone around the site of the Hungarian case.”



    Post edited by: Werner, at: 2007/02/11 21:09

    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4434

    Hi Martin:

    At this time i am creating a print publication against blaming wild birds, containing a brief history about the upcoming of H5N1 in poultry flocks since 1959 (strain A/chicken/Scotland/59), the media policy and the kind of the published “reportings”, lobbyism of poultry industry and pharma concerns etc.

    I am in contact to Klemens Steiof too (this moment he’s cutted off from any media, observing Aquatic Warbler in Senegal ’til next week, so i think he heard nothing abot the suffolk outbreak) . Thougt i would have finished my publication next week, but may be it would an good idea to extend it (related to Hungary and UK)..


    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4432

    David Miliband spreads John Oxfords awful stuff: Found this today

    Great Britain: Search for transmitter As the British environmental minister David Miliband of the BBC on Tuesday said, finding "uppermost priority" has as the H5N1-virus could reach the company. Miliband holds the transmission through a wild bird most probably. About 160 000 turkeys of the enterprise Bernard Matthews had been culled within 48 hours. Around the mast company near getting-clay in the south-east-English earldom Suffolk a three kilometer protected area is valid since the weekend. The British Department of Health, Education and Welfare followed according to BBC-information the council furthermore from experts and increased his stock of the flu medicine Tamiflu. The British authorities keep on assuring, however, that for people hardly a danger exists.

    I think it is necessary to find out the lobbyistic background of such "reportings". The blog of David Miliband:

    (Take a look at the comments on "Bird Flu" too)

    By the Way: New realizations about Tamiflu "Potential Risks Associated with the Proposed Widespread Use of Tamiflu"  Werner

    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4431

    Martin wrote:

    And yet, seems Oxford persists in blaming wild birds; just quoted in Times online, re small bird popping down ventilation shaft. Waterfowl are likeliest carriers

    I’ve read the same here in Germany. The best joke was released by the European Union itself: "Possibly sea gulls, which were frequent in the region, would have transferred the virus."

    My comment: Possibly the course of an albatros was diverted by the stubborn low "Kyrill" 2 weeks ago, and blown directly into the ventilation shaft of BernardMatthews. Another version may be that an H5N1 positive greater roadrunner (Geococcyx californianus) – as an effect of global warming – was running from Hungary to GB and captured an waterbike after the assassination attempt at the English coast and is now on the way to Cuba.. Greets, Werner

    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4429

    Hi Martin,

    well done.

    The latest news related to Bernardmatthews Poultry: According to an OIE spokesman was the H5N1 strain in GB nearly the same as in Hungary, so “It is proven that the Virus was carried by livestock transports”

    (Sorry, at this time found only in german)

    Would been better for Professor Oxford to keep silence.. ;)



    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4427

    In addition, the Tooth Fairy Bird must be an very small but courageous creature:

    Professor Oxford: “The most likely explanation is that a small bird has come in through a ventilation shaft.”


    Post edited by: Martin, at: 2007/02/07 08:13

    in reply to: Mysterious outbreak in sealed Suffolk shed, UK #4426

    Hi Martin,

    maybe there’s an scientific explanation of the Tooth Fairy Bird. Must be an new species with nonlocal abilities, so that an cooperation between the Friedrich-Loeffler-Institute and the CERN ( is indicated. The Tooth Fairy Bird beams from one location in zerotime to another, that’s it.

    Because the known problem to measure the spin in both axis of photons the Tooth Fairy Bird is, beyond that, unfortunately invisible.

    I believe that i should inform Thomas Mettenleiter about these new realizations immediately. ;)

    Best greets,

    Post edited by: Werner, at: 2007/02/04 15:56

    in reply to: H5N1 – the Mr Neutron of diseases? cf Monty Python #4185

    Hi Martin,

    i heard about the thesis that the FLI (Friedrich Loeffler Institute) plays possibly an role on the Ruegen outbreak. However, there are no proves and the FLI was quite a little humorless in case of spreading this thesis.. :whistle:

    From my point of view the US got George Bush II to bring ‘freedom and democracy’ over the world (officially, unofficially it is nothing but an imperialistic/economic programme). Here in Germany we got Horst Seehofer – Agriculture Minister – and Thomas Mettenleiter – leader of the Friedrich-Loeffler-Institute – to save the world of the ‘inevitable’ H5N1 pandemic (officially, unofficially it is, by the way, a good cause to save the profit of the german poultry industry..). In other words: H5N1 as an economic location factor.

    And the birds are victims of these economic policy – just a ‘collateral damage’. This explains particulary the misinformation and the H5N1 related tabloid reportings. There are just lobbyists at work.

    I am angry and gobsmacked in fact if i see the paradigm shift at the readership caused on these misinformations. Birds, until the H5N1 media hype widely perceived as ‘feathered friends‘ now mutateted in something like ‘feathered foes‘.

    Do you remember the movie ‘Atomic Café’ and ‘Bert the turtle’? In 1950, an animated turtle named Bert taught American children to ‘duck and cover’ in case of atomic attack. Both, Horst Seehofer and Thomas Mettenleiter, seems to be modern variants of Bert. They teach the german electorate to ‘duck and cover’ in case of H5N1 attack. In February it seemed to me if Hermann Goering makes an remake of Alfred Hitchcocks “The Birds”. In Mecklenburg-Vorpommern were the ‘conservation of the species’ related laws cancelled, hunters with night vision googles were ready to shoot and kill every wild bird. Residents of declared H5N1 restricted areas got the order to keep silence about those governmental taken steps. That’s what happened in Germany, february 2006. Not i.e. in north Vietnam or an other dictatorial country.

    At last my own thoughts about H5N1:

    Hypothesis: H5N1 is endemic in wide parts of the wild bird population and spreads rapidly over the rest. If this it is so, the actual governmental taken steps are foolish. To kill every bird in 3 Km diameter of every H5N1 suspected case is no acceptable problem solution. The only way would be vaccination of poultry and domestic flocks.

    Related to this hypothesis it is irrelevant if H5N1 – i agree with this thesis – was released by the poultry industry or not. I think that the H5N1 problem (like most of the other problems) is entirely man-made. Furthermore i believe that it is foolish to think that i.e. the application of antibiotic, mutagenic substances in the poultry industry stay without any adverse consequences. This may explain why the hpai strain of H5N1 is deadly within short times in case of infect poultry flocks and less deadly in wild birds.

    Best regards,

    in reply to: H5N1 – the Mr Neutron of diseases? cf Monty Python #4183

    Hi Martin,

    in relation to the “wild bird thesis” Monthy Pythons sketch does not match perfectly. In context of the H5N1 outbreaks (especially here in Germany..) it would be better to speak about “Most dangerous ninja house sparrows” (or something like this, maybe “kamikaze-ducks” would be another good choice..) instead of “Most dangerous man of the world”. ;)

    If we take a look at the last outbreaks in Germany (the fist one on Ruegen is without any plausible explanation), there must be something like invisible sparrows – which breaks in the enclosures of i.e. (related to the “Rotterdam Zoo” / Netherland..) northern hawk owls (Surnia ulula), by the way day active, bre carnivores – sets the virus free and disappears without a trace. Even the outbreaks in Dresden were limited to the black swans, no other cases in the area around ’em , no clustering of outbreaks which would to expect if wild birds were vectors of H5N1.

    A few words abot the $2 trillion USD which would an pandemic costs: The pandemic is – at this time – an highly hypothetical thing. If the World Bank wishes to calculate the costs of hypothesises, they had to calculate the costs for the meteorite hit of 1950da (1.1 Km diameter, appears in march 2880 with the proof of 0.33 percent) too. No virologist neither knows in which form (high / low pathogenic) nor when the pandemic mutation of the virus will happen.

    The last achievements of our brave new world (Huxley) are “War on terrorism” and “War on H5N1”. Maybe it would an good idea (for ecological reasons) to unite them within one “War on [H5N1] terror” campaign. In february 2006 when the H5N1 media hype begun here in Germany i published these website:

    An other project of mine was the “Petition against preventative slaughtering (“culling”) of animals” which were signed by more than 3,700 people.

    And my new website – particularly related to H5N1 too – is now online too:

    These links just to give a little information about myself and my own position to the H5N1 media hype. Of course there is an risc of pandemic mutation. But all steps of prevention have to concider carefully. The killing of 200 million healthy birds in example may not be, in any instance, an acceptable option.


    Werner Hupperich

    PS: Sorry about some spelling mistakes, but my english is possibly not in best condition.. :)

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